Strategy advice for Japan needed. (2024)

So, I decided, in my finite wisdom, to play through my first game of Victoria 2 as Japan. Mostly because I want a challenge. I am sure it will be fun too.

So, I have isolated several strategic goals, based on my study.

Firstly, westernise quickly.

Secondly, grab Korea, Manchuria, and Taiwan.

Thirdly, and running concurrently with the previous, grab Hawaii and kick the Spanish out of the Phillipines, thus considerably reducing the likelihood of great power interference in my imperial designs.

Then I grab as much land as I can take, starting with the East Indies and Indochina.

I am fairly certain this is a good plan, but I am not certain how to turn this theoretical plan into a practical one.

Playing as Japan isn't a challenge, it's easy. The AI is completely hopeless at naval warfare (as it is in all of Paradox's games), so once you get up to ironclads and commerce raiders you pretty much win the game. Going for the Philippines would up the challenge a bit since they're largely worthless islands you'd be spending your infamy on (Java and Sumatra are far more important). Spain is never a problem except as allies to your enemies: it's the Dutch you'll be fighting with primarily.

If you want something more challenging but still noob friendly, France is a powerful country with a neighboring enemy. They have a lot going on, though, so might be a touch overwhelming. Belgium is the traditional recommendation for new players, as it can industrialize easily and has some manageable warfare (so long as you don't mess up diplomatically).

GC13 said:

Playing as Japan isn't a challenge, it's easy. The AI is completely hopeless at naval warfare (as it is in all of Paradox's games), so once you get up to ironclads and commerce raiders you pretty much win the game. Going for the Philippines would up the challenge a bit since they're largely worthless islands you'd be spending your infamy on (Java and Sumatra are far more important). Spain is never a problem except as allies to your enemies: it's the Dutch you'll be fighting with primarily.

If you want something more challenging but still noob friendly, France is a powerful country with a neighboring enemy. They have a lot going on, though, so might be a touch overwhelming. Belgium is the traditional recommendation for new players, as it can industrialize easily and has some manageable warfare (so long as you don't mess up diplomatically).

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Yes, it is so easy I can't even balance my budget. At least while still being able to build the transports I need to move my men from place to place and keep my education and administration high enough that my clergy and bureaucrats don't demote. Oh, and did I mention that almost none of my POP has even their life needs met. Yes, so easy.

If you get succesfull rebellions in an unciv, they'll have to restart their westernising process.

Thats a pro tip right there!

Also, why not mess with the russkies? Kick them back to europe. Tons of useless tundra to be had.

setsunaluvr said:

Yes, it is so easy I can't even balance my budget. At least while still being able to build the transports I need to move my men from place to place and keep my education and administration high enough that my clergy and bureaucrats don't demote. Oh, and did I mention that almost none of my POP has even their life needs met. Yes, so easy.

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The budget is easily manageable. Just max taxes and tariffs, your efficiency is so low that your pops won't starve any more than necessary. The life needs is due to not having market access to fruit not because of the financial situation of your pops. Just conquer some fruit and you'll be alright.

>Install Pops of Darkness.
>Play Tokugawa Shogunate or the Emperor.
>Read THIS article.
>Conquer the Western Pacific Rim.

I did this playing the Otomo(or was it Satsuma? I don't remember). The economy quits working for most of the Japanese Daimyo in the late 1840s, but should continue to work for Tokugawa or the Emperor. Even if it doesn't, it's worth starting early so as to start setting up fledgling industries and ensure the restoration takes place asap. I was able to do the restoration in the early 1860s IIRC. I bet I could get it earlier if I manipulated a few things.

LiberiusX said:

>Install Pops of Darkness.
>Play Tokugawa Shogunate or the Emperor.
>Read THIS article.
>Conquer the Western Pacific Rim.

I did this playing the Otomo(or was it Satsuma? I don't remember). The economy quits working for most of the Japanese Daimyo in the late 1840s, but should continue to work for Tokugawa or the Emperor. Even if it doesn't, it's worth starting early so as to start setting up fledgling industries and ensure the restoration takes place asap. I was able to do the restoration in the early 1860s IIRC. I bet I could get it earlier if I manipulated a few things.

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>2011+4
>using memearrows
>ishygddt

Red_Galiray said:

I suppouse they are only defeating you with sheer numbers. Try to attack with an army with similar men in combat. Since you are ahead in technology, that should be enough.

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So, instead of two four stacks I should probably use one eight stack?

LiberiusX said:

>Install Pops of Darkness.
>Play Tokugawa Shogunate or the Emperor.
>Read THIS article.
>Conquer the Western Pacific Rim.

I did this playing the Otomo(or was it Satsuma? I don't remember). The economy quits working for most of the Japanese Daimyo in the late 1840s, but should continue to work for Tokugawa or the Emperor. Even if it doesn't, it's worth starting early so as to start setting up fledgling industries and ensure the restoration takes place asap. I was able to do the restoration in the early 1860s IIRC. I bet I could get it earlier if I manipulated a few things.

Click to expand...

setsunaluvr said:

So, I decided, in my finite wisdom, to play through my first game of Victoria 2 as Japan. Mostly because I want a challenge. I am sure it will be fun too.

Click to expand...

you know the kind of person who recommends a total changeup mod to somebody who has never played a game before? The kind of people whos terms get me modded, thats who.

when you fight Korea, generally you'll fight Korea AND the Chinese Empire. Korea by itself is mince meat for Japan. The Chinese Empire not so much. The key issue with the Japanese is establishing a foothold on Korea before the Chinese flood you out. Maybe instead of conquering Korea all at once you can try to conquer a province. It's more likely you'll be able to win way more easily by trying to conquer say North Korea first then finish South Korea later. The Chinese Empire will put up a tougher fight for the entirety of Korea.

perhaps even more important than abusing sphering is to abuse alliances. IF you declare war on Korea, you will only fight their allies (e.g. Chinese Empire, and not their substates). Keep that in mind. For instance, if I wanna fight Russia, and I'd rather not fight France (who usually allies with Russia), you can try to humiliate Krakow (Russian ally, presuming they aren't friendly with other GP) and then add war goals onto Russia. This is at the expense of infamy but lets you better control who you fight.

Now this doesn't necessarily work in a multiplayer setting, who can call their allies in war.

Watch some Japan let's play. Shenryyr2 has one up to date patch wise I think.

Starting moves would be to get like 10 transport ships (start building before you unpause) before clipper convoys are gone. Start the Early Restoration thing for free economic tech and some research points. Change ruling party from shogunate to that blue one too please pops and keep militancy low. Draft some cavalry, should be ok to have 2 per 8 infantry. Keep economy in green (max taxes and something about 51% in costs) and wait for ships and tech points. First choose reform that gives you Infantry unit.

Build real army with Infantry instead of irregulars. Expensive but worth it. Claim Conquest on Korea if you have transports ready to go. Lots potential infamy but if you are lucky it may turn out to be 0. Once you have few 30k armies done (10 regiments 8inf+2cav) or ratio and CB on Korea go to war. Keep some small forces on mainland Japan since China might have some transports. Land in provinces with largest support limit so you don't suffer much attrition. Siege one province to make if easier to send rest of the invasion forces. Try baiting Korean army into attacking you so they suffer penalties (unless they sit in plains and have no general). Once their armies are gone split your stacks (keep one cav per army to speed up sieges) in two and carpet siege asap. After Korea is 100% occupied annex them (enjoy huge boost in research points for reforms).
It's a 50/50 thing but while at war with Korea you might get research points for another reform before peacing out (something like ability to build naval bases). The bad thing is that occupied Korans will gain militancy and be pain in the backside till you Westernize and become GP..

Forward your armies to northern border with Manchuria and dig in. Wait for ticking war score to White Peace China or maybe steal something from them if you have infamy room.

You might end up fighting huge battles with China so keep your armies in woods and hills. 30k stacks with good generals should be able to hold till reinforcements arrive. Disable automatic generals creation so you can focus only on generals and not waste points for admirals.

Don't rush reforms. Getting reactionaries due to high militancy could be bad. I have no idea about the optimal choice of reforms.

One of my favorite (okay, most successful) opening moves with Japan is to Conquer Brunei -- only 50.10k population. It starts with only 1 military unit, so it's an easy conquest. The land is pretty valuable too: 4 provinces consisting of 1xcoffee, 2xtimber and 1xgrain.

It makes a convenient staging point for an early invasion of Johore, another good target before Westernization. It has 8-.40k people, and it's 4 provinces are 1x grain and 3x timber. In several games, I've seen the 3x timber turn into 3xprecious metals before 1850, making them pretty lucrative. The only caution is that Johore puts you next to the UK. Should you become a GP and get involved in a crisis war with the UK on the other side, you will get pushed into the ocean, especially if they have a CB against you. Siam allies with Johore pretty early on, and they can be troublesome, trying to return your new territory to Jahore. (Garrison the islands of Okinawa -- Siam likes to target them).

It's pretty easy for Japan to bubble up into GP status before learning the 1st tech once you're Westernized. Working on adding Cambodia, Siam, Dai Nam and Burma to your sphere of influence will provide you with ample material goods if you can hold onto them.

Beyond that, you're on your own. You will need to walk on eggshells around China and all its puppet states.

Is cavalry really that useful? I thought I should go all infantry to make the most of my tech advantage.

Also, what do I do with the troops I start out with? I was thinking of using some of them to garrison benin, okinawa and that other island. Maybe two regiments apiece.

setsunaluvr said:

Is cavalry really that useful? I thought I should go all infantry to make the most of my tech advantage.

Also, what do I do with the troops I start out with? I was thinking of using some of them to garrison benin, okinawa and that other island. Maybe two regiments apiece.

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They have a bit of recon which allows you to siege faster. If the battles get big enough to fill out the entire combat width then they'll attack from the flanks without taking damage. It's unlikely that will happen though and Korea usually doesn't build a lot of forts. Disband the irregulars you started with and build infantry instead.

Gnorf said:

They have a bit of recon which allows you to siege faster. If the battles get big enough to fill out the entire combat width then they'll attack from the flanks without taking damage. It's unlikely that will happen though and Korea usually doesn't build a lot of forts. Disband the irregulars you started with and build infantry instead.

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Agree with the cavalry. I prefer 1 cav and 5 iirregulars in my initial 18 point stacks. Put them in forts on key positions. I will make several stacks of 24 on Japan with 3 cav and 5 infantry and set them on 'Hunt Rebels' to deal with the rather nasty uprising early on. Later on, you can slowly convert those irregulars to infantry. Be careful about throwing away units with experience, though.

I would hang on to some irregulars, though. They are dirt cheap (<1 maintenance / day) I just started a game to investigate military maintenance costs and that accursed Land Unit stockpile slider. Most of the early infantry tech (pre 1860 anyway) applies to all units, including irregulars.